Standout Rastakhan's Rumble Decks From Week 1

48 Comments

1. TheActualBaker December 11, 2018

   When talking about the Da Undatakah druid, basically the hadronox druid, there is a typo. You wrote Mosh'ogg announcer instead of Mosh'ogg enfrocer.
   Anyway, great insight that preety much sums up the actual meta!

   1. Stonekeep December 11, 2018

      You're right, fixed that. Thanks!

2. tokoyamis beak December 11, 2018

   When taking about dog's Undetakah Druid you linked Mosh'Ogg Announcer, instead of Mosh'Ogg Enforcer. "When it comes to other new cards, Dog has decided to run Mosh'Ogg Announcer." Its easy to confuse those 2.

   1. Stonekeep December 11, 2018

      You're right, fixed that. Thanks!

3. tokoyamis beak December 11, 2018

   Have you tried experimenting with Dragon Warrior (non-odd)? Is it any good ?

   1. Ealk December 11, 2018

      I tried it. It's afun deck to play, especially when you are fan of dragons and Warriors. The fact that it has access to even cards make it interesting to play, you can create a lot of different decks that are still viable. However, new dragons are more control-oriented which make it pretty hard to survive the early and mid-game stage. I believe that there is working deck, but I refused to find it and I am trying Dragon Mage and Dragon Hunter right now. But if you want to have fun and test your deck-building abilities, definitely give it a try

      1. tokoyamis beak December 11, 2018

         Oh, I see. Thanks for your response. I'll definitely give it a try.

   2. Stonekeep December 11, 2018

      I've tried, and it feels a bit underwhelming. If you go for a more Midrange build, it doesn't have enough ways to swing the tempo, the Dragons are mostly too slow. And if you play the Control variant, Odd version just seem better. And both Odd & regular Control Dragon Warrior share a similar problem - they're too fair. They don't have any infinite value win condition (like Deathstalker Rexxar / Frost Lich Jaina) or powerful combos (Shudderwock Shaman, even Control Priest). I mean, there's Boom, which is nice, but it's too random. For the sake of value, you want the Discover Hero Power and it happens only 1/5 of the time.

      I'd say that those decks have a higher chance to work after the rotation, when a lot of those crazy win conditions other slow decks have will rotate out.

      1. tokoyamis beak December 11, 2018

         That makes sense, I was trying to go to a more control-ish direction. I'll just try to see what I can come up with, I'm not trying to hard climb anyhow. Thank you very much for the response.

4. SenseiDragon December 11, 2018

   I have problem to counter shudderwock shaman. Any suggestion? literally any deck I play loses against it

   1. tokoyamis beak December 11, 2018

      Well, I don't know much about matchups, but you could play a control Warlock deck and include 2 demonic projects ..., even include 2 gnomferatus.

   2. tokoyamis beak December 11, 2018

      Idk how well it would work, but I think you can use mojomaster zihi to stall their shudderwock, while you do your thing, maybe in a midrange deck ... not sure.

5. timeotheo December 11, 2018

   Man, this is pretty depressing... Do you see any nerf that could really create a new meta ? I mean, here the problem is not that any one deck is too powerful, it's just the whole new expansion that has a low power level. You can't nerf ALL the boomsday decks at once, can you ?
   Nerfing odd paladin would make kingsbane rogue pretty happy (and I'm not even sure there is much to nerf - they can't go back with the odd-even mechanic now). As for hunter, I can't imagine them nerfing Zul'jin since it's the hero card this expansion.
   Really, does anyone see a way we can hope for the meta to freshen up ? Any contender for tier 2 at least among Rastakhan new archetypes ?

   1. GlosuuLang December 12, 2018

      We have to wait until rotation. I believe after rotation we are going to have a very fun meta. All the broken stuff from Year of the Mammoth will be gone from Standard. Odd Rogue and Odd Warrior will still be around, unfortunately, but other top decks are losing a lot from rotation. Odd Paladin won't be the same without Level Up!, Vinecleaver and Fungalmancer, for example.

6. BlooSnow December 12, 2018

   I've been stuck at rank 8-10 for the last 2 days playing the new version of Even paladin but I don't have mojomaster. Is mojomaster good enough to craft? I want to finally reach rank 5 because i've never really tried enough to push.

   1. d930065 December 12, 2018

      It's a good tech in the right meta, but definitely not necessary.

7. squark66 December 12, 2018

   release a 25 cost legendary, discard legendary, a legendary that allows my opponent to discover cards also another useless priest legendary (all of which I opened of course), only to realise what we knew at the outset, that they are not prime ladder cards - sadly it is no surprise the rastakhan set has not impacted the meta. Yes niche legendaries add spice but spice seems to equal low win rate for hacks like me so they don't get played

   1. Swolelord December 12, 2018

      Just play dragon mindblast priest mate. Still tier 2 I’d say

8. WildRage December 12, 2018

   Why is Deathrattle Hunter considered a better deck than Recruit Hunter?
   They're similar concepts but Recruit Hunter replaces all minions but Kathrena and the big bois with Secrets, the Emeralds and a huge Zul'Jin turn.
   Isn't Zul'Jin worth it?

   1. GlosuuLang December 12, 2018

      Hybrid Recruit Hunters with a secret package and a high end have always been quite inconsistent. Ideally you want to have secrets to play early game, a buffed Spellstone by Turn 5, and then drop the Deathrattle Ooze and/or Kathrena and start bringing the big boys to finish the job. The problem is that it only happens like 20% of the time: sometimes you don't draw secrets or Spellstones in the early game and you get run over, other times the enemy deals with your Spellstone and you don't find the extra gas. 10-15% of your games you will draw your 3-4 big beasts in the early turns and then have nothing to recruit with Ooze or Kathrena. Cube Deathrattle is just so much more consistent: a Play Dead can help you trigger a Devilsaur Egg on Turn 3 or 4, but it's also a great card once you have a Cube or Kathrena on the board. As you know Deathrattle Hunter can still get bad draws and not pressure enough in the midgame, but Recruit Hunter runs into that situation much more frequently.

      1. WildRage December 12, 2018

         Thanks for the answer! I see the issue now.

9. DukeStarswisher December 12, 2018

   Thank you for the rant about Odd Paladin. I have the exact same gripes about people who play that deck. Everyone is trying new decks with new cards and then Odd pally is sitting there with NOTHING NEW and still owning the meta. It seriously has to stop.

   The deck isn't even fun to play. I imagine the people who play it are masochists.

   1. DukeStarswisher December 12, 2018

      And the lvl of shade by putting "Rastakhan's Rumble" Odd pally is over 9000 LOL

   2. JoyDivision December 12, 2018

      In my oppinion, you can't blame no one for playing a good deck on ladder.

      To be honest, I think (as harsh as this might sound) that laddering isn't about fun, it's about competition. And within any competition, you use the best possible combination of available ressources to achieve the best result possible.

      Therefore, the reasons why there are so many Odd Paladins on the ladder are manifold ... for some players, winning is more fun than trying new stuff. Others can't afford all those fancy new cards, so they stick to what they got.

      So, as I said in the beginning, you can't really blame people for playing good decks in a competitive environment.

      1. DukeStarswisher December 12, 2018

         When you play a boring aggro deck to get a little more dust at the end of the season then you should really check your life priorities.

         I can understand Odd pally showing up in tournaments and such (with ACTUAL competitive stakes) but ladder is just sad. You are just playing to brag and if that is your goal then go check yourself.

         And the funny thing is, there is very little to brag about! If someone told me they got to legend I'm like "awesome!" but if they then said it was using only Odd pally I wouldn't care. Its not an achievement, its a scourge.

         1. JoyDivision December 13, 2018

            Hm.

            I for myself play Control Mage and Combo Priest, because my priority is 'getting all classes to 500 wins' and those 2 are the only ones left.

            All I wanted to say that different people have different priorities. And I believe that it's not fair to judge others by your own standards because, you know ... yours aren't any better or worse than theirs. ;)

            Besides that, I don't see that bragging about Odd Paladin players is any better than playing the deck. Just relax and have fun playing HS?

            1. nickus December 13, 2018

               I understand what you are saying, but I am completely on the Duke's side. Hearthstone is a game after all and by design it is made for having fun. People should cheer up and try new stuff, play around and not be such try hards netdecking.
               On the topic off odd paladin: I am truelly sick of this deck already. It's been around since witchwood. In last 20 games I played on lather, 12 were odd paladin, 5 were hunters and remaining 3 were priests and warlocks. It gets really boring after a while.

            2. DukeStarswisher December 13, 2018

               I'm just going to say, if Odd paladin continues to be the scourge it is, paying players will begin to stop playing until the rotation. nbd right? Not for Team 5. If their <50% base of players who actually pay nod off for an entire quarter, they are going to take a hit in their overall revenue. At that point, they won't care in the least about the f2p players out there. They survive on the players who actually pay for the game.

               I don't think its at that point *yet* but if I and everyone else continue to see HSReplay's stats of highest winrate and 12 different versions of Odd pally all above 60% percent win rate, I'm sure they are going to need to address that at some point. They cannot afford to lose paying players until the rotation.

            3. JoyDivision December 14, 2018

               Maybe we should first clarify which ranks we're talking about!?

               I'm a Wild player mostly, until I hit 'dad legend' (which isn't very difficult to achive ;) ). After that, I'm playing for golden heros, in both formats.

               I'm lingering at Rank 8 in Standard and I so so wish I would face MORE Odd Paladins with Control Mage ... sadly, I'm mostly paired against Hunters, Rogues and Shudderwo ... sorry Shamans.

            4. nickus December 14, 2018

               I was playing those 20 games on my climb to legend with rush warrior: so to be specific rank 4-legend

      2. DukeStarswisher December 12, 2018

         And I hear you on the "can't afford it" but I have a hard time believing that is the majority of Odd pally players.

         1. JoyDivision December 13, 2018

            I'm not saying it's the majority - but you can't deny that efficient-wise, investing in that deck was a good decision back when it arose.

            And there ARE those who are strictly F2P and on a tight budget - in this case, a deck like Odd Paladin is a very good investment.

10. Omnitarian December 12, 2018

    Poor little expac. Nothing they printed could have competed with the power/consistency/value of the cards from KFT and KnC. Well, they could've, but then they'd find themselves with the same powercreep problem a year from now.

    The thing is, though the meta is stale, it IS quite balanced and diverse. Raising the question of what, if anything, they'll nerf? You could make a case for Play Dead, Lesser Emerald Spellstone, and Deathstalker Rexxar (ideally Branching Paths/Spreading Plague too, but Blizzard seems contractually obligated to never nerf Druid). The thing is, any nerfs would be more about winkingly retiring cards 'early' rather than actually balancing OP cards/overtuned decks. That rubs against the philosophy of what nerfing is for. Will be interesting to see how Blizz plays this one out.

    At least we all save on dust and will have extra fun once the rotation happens :\

11. JoyDivision December 12, 2018

    I think that for as long as HS exists, real metagame shifts (read: new decks with new or unexplored mechanics) will only happen with the standard rotation - or in Wild, where it is much easier to miss some broken interaktion with old and new cards ...

    Over time, Blizzard reduced their howlers per expansion to a minimum - yes, there are cards like Patches or Keleseth, but in my opinion, they've learned from those. So, if they don't decide to delve deeply into power creeping and produce sets that are strictly superior to their predecessors, only few new cards will make it into trusted and working deck lists.

    Besides that: Hearthstone is to 'expensive'. Most of the time, trying new ideas requires owning the according cards. I for myself opened 140 packs of RR by now and I'm still missing

    14 Legendaries
    10 Epics
    2 Rares (I didn't get a single copy of Shriek and the Paladin Spirit)

    So let's say I'd want to test Dragon Warrior. To play a good version (and let's be honest, it doesn't make any sense to test a highly suboptimal list) I'd need to craft:

    2 Smolderthorn Lancer
    1 War Master Voone
    plus older cards like 2 Reckless Flurry and some other cards that I didn't open back then

    Most players simply can't afford all those 'fun crafts', so they stick to the decks they already own.

    Another example for this is Discardlock - I'm pretty sure many people would like to test this deck right now - but look at how many 'useless' legendaries you'd need to craft for playing an optimal version - Lakkari Sacrifice, Clutchmother, Lana'thel. I'm sure many players couldn't afford to safe those cards and dusted those them for what they actually needed. And so ... most players stick to their Lifegain Zoo list for the time being.

    tl;dr:

    1. balanced set design decreases the amount of new archetypes
    2 . serious metagame shifts only happen when Standard rotates
    3. Most players don't have the chance to play new cards because they don't own them / can't afford to craft all cards they want to test

12. nickname23 December 12, 2018

    In my opinion, Rastakhan's Rumble is a great expansion design-wise. It has a lot of interesting, usable cards. Playing around with the new stuff the first few days after release has been more fun than Witchwood and Boomsday together. There is also high potential in a decent amount of cards.

    It's just a shame that everything gets overshadowed by Odd Paladin. I'm on ladder, lose 2 in a row against that deck, quit the game. I start watching Deathstar playing Master's Call Hunter at high legend and he has to face it 3/5 games. It's so frustrating, that I even want to quit watching. He finally finds other opponents. From now on, the stream is enjoyable. Then he gets hit with another Odd Paladin army all over again. I stop watching.

    I think Baku has to go. I can immagine that Odd Paladin won't be a deck without Level Up, Vinecleaver, etc. But doesn't that limit design space for another year? I somewhat agree with Stonekeep saying: Odd Warrior doesn't do unfair things. On the other hand: Isn't it problematic in a polarizing and unfun way to just shut down every aggressive/burst strategy just by clicking button. Isn't stuff like Shield Slam and Reckless Flurry just too consistent in that deck. (Is it ok that druid ramps for card advantage, hiding behind taunts and armor, and we have to wait for rotation, although community asked for nerfs, btw)

    2cents on Genn: The same lame card design as Baku, but doesn't feel as unfair as Baku, at least to me. Genn is "only" Tempo advantage and not power advantage and you can't play 1 Drops in Even decks. Nevertheless, Even Paladin already showed us, how a broken Even deck looks like.

    Tldr: I don't want to wait until Baku(/Genn) rotation. Druid core cards was enough staleness to shrink my enjoyment for the game to a minimum in 2018. Don't let Baku/(Genn) be in the way of 2019.

    1. JoyDivision December 13, 2018

       I'm with you - Odd and Even they way they did it is a mistake that needs to be corrected.

       Sadly, your options are very limited when it comes to the core design. What should be done (some Pros already pointed that out) is the actual cards (Baku and Genn) should be made unplayable - for example, Baku could be a 10 Mana 0/1. Problem is, even then the upgraded Hero power might make up for the chance of drawing a completely useless card ...

       1. nickname23 December 13, 2018

          I'd say, for the sake of the game, just "warsong" Baku as soon as possible and keep an eye on Genn. I don't know, what's going on in upcoming expansions, so it might be a mistake to not touch Genn in advance. If they know it, they should do it on Genn, too.

          1. Skoopy December 13, 2018

             can someone explain the rotation to me? when exactly is a card leaving standard? after how many expansions/years? when is Jaina/Uther/Valeera and all other DKs rotating out?

             1. Mooko December 13, 2018

                Whenever the first expansion in a year releases (probably March or so), the expansions released two years prior rotate out. For the next expansion, Un'Goro, Frozen Throne and Kobold's will rotate out.

             2. JoyDivision December 14, 2018

                Yeah, we will get a 'new' meta around March/April 2019. Hopefully. Problem is, Genn and Baku will still be around for a loooong time.

    2. GlosuuLang December 13, 2018

       Baku and Genn are fine as they are - in half of the classes they are not worth running. The problem is that there's a bunch of cards out there that hugely synergize with the upgraded Hero Powers. Odd Paladin is the most aggravating example: Level Up!, Vinecleaver and Fungalmancer make the power-level of the deck very high. And thank goodness they can't run the 3/4 that adapts Recruits or Tarim. Once rotation hits, they're mainly left with Raid Leader as a synergy to their Hero Power, so I'm expecting it to be much weaker. Even Warlock can be built because Twilight Drake and Mountain Giants are good pay-offs, and AOEs are even-costed. The opposite is true of Odd Warlock: no pay-offs and no AOEs. We've seen this with Odd Mage too: before this expansion it really didn't have much going on for it, and finally now that it has more support you can actually make a T3 deck with it.

       The scariest deck after rotation for me is Odd Warrior. The only decks it will always lose to are Mecha'thun decks, but without DK Rexxar, DK Jaina and Quest Rogue it's going to be the Control deck to beat, only losing Reckless Flurry and Quest to rotation. Odd Rogue will probably still be there because Hench-Clan Thug carries the deck, although no Vilespines and no Fungalmancer should tune down its power.

       In any case I do agree that some upgraded Hero Powers should be tuned down, since they were not designed to be available from the start of the game. Odd Warrior should get 3 Armor per button-press (why does Hunter go from 2-damage to 3, but Warrior goes from 2 to 4?). Odd Paladin should summon a Silver Hand Recruit with a +1/+1 on it (so a 2/2 for 2). Odd Rogue... I don't know how that could be nerfed. Giving it a 1/3 weapon would kill the deck, especially when you have Serrated Tooth as a fair card. And I'd rather have a 1/2 weapon than a 2/1 weapon.

       1. JoyDivision December 14, 2018

          The point is that with Genn and Baku - in contrast to Justicar Trueheart - the upgrade is guaranteed 100% and available at the start of the game. That offers a level of consistency that makes up for all deck building restrictions and - even more important - restricts design space in a way it was never restricted before.

          Thank god that this 'only' gets problematic with SOME classes right now.

          Those two legendaries definitely are the problem. ;)

          1. GlosuuLang December 14, 2018

             The thing is, the deck restrictions are SO BIG that you do need some pay-off, and besides, the upgraded Hero Powers is what allows you to weave them in the curve. And you're already including a bad tempo card (6 mana vanilla 6/5 and 7 mana vanilla 7/8). Not drawing Keleseth on 2 or not drawing Reno sucks, but you can still play Hearthstone. If you don't get a 1-mana Hero Power from Genn at the start of the game, what do you do on T1? And in T3 you just drop a two-drop? That would make the deck unplayable.

             Another thing to consider is that Justicar Trueheart's upgraded HPs were only designed with the late-game in mind, so obviously some of them are too powerful from the beginning of the game: namely Odd Paladin and Odd Warrior. It's also a reason why Odd Priest is bad: the upgraded Hero Power is great in the late game, but it does absolutely nothing in the early game, so the deck-building sacrifice is not worth it. As I say I'm all for nerfing Odd Paladin's and Odd Warrior's upgraded Hero Power from Baku, and still leave them as is for Justicar Trueheart.

    3. Jason December 13, 2018

       Odd paladin is stupid and boring as hell. I dont think Gen and Baku are bad designs i think they are cool and creative. What makes odd paladin is level up. if level up wasnt printed we would never have seen this lame deck for so long. Looking forward to next rotate as shudderwock and kingsbane will be gone. at least shudder cant operate properly without chain gang.

       1. GlosuuLang December 14, 2018

          I agree, Level Up! is what makes Odd Paladin scary in Standard. And in Wild it's even worse since they have "Two-arms men" and the 3-mana soldier that gives all Silver Hand Recruits +1 attack. Odd Paladin's Hero Power should be nerfed to summon a 2/2 Silver Hand Recruit, especially looking at Wild. Next rotation is going to be a breath of fresh air, although I'm scared of Odd Warrior, it will probably beat most decks (horribly rolling over aggro) except Mecha'thun decks. That's why I also believe Tank Up! should be nerfed to 3-mana.

       2. JoyDivision December 18, 2018

          Level Up! wasn't played before Baku. Not even in Wild, where there was lots of Silver Hand Support before.

          So ... is this card problematic or a card that guarantees a swarm of Silver Hand Recruits on turn 5?

          Besides that ... even if Level Up! gets nerfed ... is Paladin supposed to not get good odd costed cards anymore?

          Regarding a partial upgraded HP nerf for Baku - that would be very dowdy design, then. I'd reconfigure all HPs and call them differently to Justicar's ability. Moon Power, or something like that. ;)

13. Raymond December 13, 2018

    Am I missing something? Playing arround with my full Elemental Shaman deck at level 4 at the moment. Beating all Rogue, Hunter, Mage and Druid and Priest decks. Do not see a lot of Warrior, and have to say The new Cube Egg Warlock is Strong and HealLock seems strong against me. I like the Disco, and see all kinds of Priests, Druids, Shamans (Aggro, Shudderwock and everything (Evolve) in between,) and all kinds of Paladin decks (Even, Heal, OTK and sometimes Odd). Even Rogue is there, just like Pirate and Deathrattle Rogue. Even Tempo Mage is back.

    What a huge amount of different decks to try and to beat.

    WoW!!!

    If Odd Paladin is the deck to beat. Beat it. Easy win with the right deck...

    At the end of the Witchwood season it was hardly rewarding to play with Odd Paladin. And nothing changed there.

    I myself am really really happy that they keep very stupid and brainless builds with Malygos and Mecha’tun and Kingsbane out if the ladder.

    I rather try to kill all your dudes then wait for you to come off on your own deck.

    Long live the aggro that kills the combo decks. The reason control can and will rule.

14. Justin December 17, 2018

    I don't get why everyone in the comment is ranting about odd paladin. Personally, I play the control archetype (taunt druid) and whenever I meet paladin on latter I hard mulligan for swipe or spreading plague. Perhaps, for those in the comment who are getting cucked by aggros should look for a more practical hand at the start. Don't be too greedy with the control hand.

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