Tess Greymane
Tess Greymane is a 7 Mana Cost Legendary Rogue Minion card from the Core Set 2024 set!
Card Text
Battlecry: Replay every card from another class you've played this game (targets chosen randomly).
Flavor Text
Those who cannot remember their card history are doomed to repeat it.- Mana Cost: 7
- Attack: 6
- Health: 6
- Crafting Cost: 1600 / 3200 (Golden)
- Arcane Dust Gained: 400 / 1600 (Golden)
- Rarity: Legendary
- Class: Rogue
- Card Type: Minion
- Set: Core Set 2024
- Mechanics: Battlecry
Tess Greymane Card Review
Now that is a Legendary Rogue deserves. While I understand the general hype, I’d not be SO sure about it yet – you need to remember that lots of cards like Swashburglar or Ethereal Peddler are rotating out, meaning that while the archetype gains lots of potential, it also loses some vital cards. With all of those cards present, I think that it could be seriously possible. Right now? I’m not sure.
What works really, and I mean really well for Tess is that she plays any CARD from the other class, not SPELL. Because given her random nature, playing only Spells would mean that she’s a much weaker pre-nerf Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, since Yogg activated once for every spell you’ve played, not only for the spells from other classes. However, since she plays minions too, she might be a great way to refill the board. You will just need to keep the spells that can have potentially devastating effects for after you’ve already played her, though. For example, playing that random Twisting Nether you got might not be the best idea if you plan to play Tess soon, as you might drop a bunch of minions and then Twisting Nether everything.
Since the replayed cards are cast in a random order, there is only so much control you can have over it. Between the RNG of the cards you get, and the RNG of the order and RNG of the targets, this won’t really be consistent. Yes, you might just not play AoE spells or removals you get from the random cards so you won’t have a chance to hit it… but what if you need to play that removal? Or what if you get only “bad” cards to replay with Tess? You just don’t play anything and let your opponent kill you? There is just too much that can go wrong. You could play Lilian Voss to re-roll your bad spells, but that’s a one-time thing assuming you draw her.
So, even though I think that this card has potential and it might eventually see play (or see play in Wild), I don’t think that her time is now. The archetype still basically relies on playing weak cards from the opponent’s class that might have no synergy with your deck whatsoever. Yes, this card is a nice pay-off, but that’s the only one. The rest of your deck is still quite underwhelming.
I think that this card has potential, but I don’t think that a Burgle Rogue will be a thing YET (in Standard, at least). You might still want to run her with just a few cards like Hallucination or Blink Fox instead of building a whole deck around the Burgle synergies. For example, I still wouldn’t want to play Spectral Cutlass – it looks bad even if you build a Burgle deck.
I would see something like a mix between Burgle and Miracle Rogue, something like that. But this card is definitely not enough pay-off to go all-in on the Burgle cards. We’ll need not more Burgle cards, but more Burgle SYNERGIES for this kind of thing to work. Like, you wouldn’t play a full Dragon deck and run a bunch of suboptimal and non-synergistic cards if you had only one Legendary that synergizes with the Dragons.
Card rating: 7/10
Just tested it in game and tanglefur mystic and ravencallet can give cards from random classes, I got a priest card and a warrior card with them, so they could also work in a Tess deck, and the mystic is a 3/4 which is good tempo.
If you somehow change your hero with any Deathknight hero card (aside from Valeera) before playing Tess Greymane. All spells and minions she replays will be rogue. Just so everyone knows.
NAH.. She will replay ALL except DK ones. I’ve just had some test games. In a match, I vs a big mage. I got DK Jaina with Pick Pocket. Changed to DKJ later on. The moment I played Tess. She flooded my hand with Pick Pocket, stormed enermy’s minions with Firestrikes and Blizzards, threw secrets on me, filled the board with mage’s minions, bumped my Lich King to 14/14 (Edwin’s effect), then shuffled 3 copies of it into my deck (Strider’s effect)… The only cards she didn’t replay are Frostmourne and Dearth and Decay from LK.
I don’t know why people think this card is 4-5 stars. Burgle rogue is simply not good. I don’t see how it can even come close to beating warlock or priest. Stealing random warlock cards are useless, so are random priest cards. How does this deck keep up with tempo at all? This card can’t carry the deck at all and it’s not even that good by itself. If you get a board clear and you cast it e.g. twisting nether, then this card literally becomes twisting nether. Another twisting nether might be good, but what are the chances of that? What if you just get hellfire… This card might kill your with the battlecry…
I think it’s funny how this card would basically nerf itself if it ever became part of a top tier deck. This card is a vanilla 8 mana 6/6 if you’re playing against rogue. I think the idea of that happening and people teching in cards like Litch King, Yesera, or even the new Witch’s Cauldron just to prevent that absolutely hilarious.
I’m laughing at everyone who says that, unlike Yogg, you have control on the cards that Tess Greymane will play. Yeah, like you can control RNG on which cards you get from the other class! This, like pre-nerf Yogg, COULD be powerful, because it also summons minions. But I still believe it’s too unreliable. You still only played Yogg on lost games for that chance of turning the tables. But you’re supposed to play Tess as the winning condition in a Burgle deck. And the problem with Burgle-type cards is, they’re VERY UNRELIABLE. Like with Yogg, it’s difficult to predict how impactful this legendary will be. It will for sure motivate players to play that archetype that Blizzard has forced on Rogue this expansion. But I think at least half of the time, the win condition in Tess will not suffice to win the game. And that sucks. So I’m giving this 3/5 stars.
PS: Blizzard, the REAL incentive we need to play cards from other classes is that we can DISCOVER them, like Hallucination or the Jade card that rotates out and offered us cards from three classes. That would reduce RNG and increase skill.
I’m hoping that I play a burglar card and get archbishop Benedict’s, then use this to replay my opponent’s deck. Sounds like fun.
The words “from another class”, means not rogue cards, or class card wich are not from your own cards.
I mean how will this card work if played by a priest or a mage?.
Will it replay every card from your class you have played previously (or any other except from rogue), or will it replay any class card you have played from another class (even from rogue)?.
“From another class” is exactly what it sais. If priest steals this then you only replay cards that arn’t priest. This was confirmed on stream since day9 actually managed to get Tess and only replayed cutglass.
The whole burgling archetype is kind of crap, and I don’t see this card making it any better. There’s already a random element to obtaining cards from another class, and you need a second layer of luck to get cards that synergize well with The Greymane. Replaying minions is the safest bet, but what if you just end up with a bunch of spells that could just be a liabiity when the random target is chosen?
Also, based on the text, it seems like this card will be basically useless in any mirror match.
Since it says replay, it might trigger battlecries. In case it does, what if I were a priest, got 2 tesses from an enemy rogue and an aoe (like elemental destruction from withes cauldron)? I play tess, doing nothing. Then elemental destruction.
Then I play tess 2. Tess 2 battlecry triggers, plays tess 3 (Im a priest, so tess is a card from another class and will play herself), then elemental destruction.
Tess 3 batthecry triggers. Plays tess 4, then elemental destro, killing tess 2 and 3 and making room on the board.
Tess 4 battlecry triggers. Plays tess 5 and elemental destro, rip tess 4. And so on.
How long can this go on? If tess does trigger battlecries, i gotta try and i dont care if it costs me a bunch of dust.
Battlecries won’t trigger. That is confirmed by Blizzard
Nice saronite chain gang reference, battlecries won’t work, but deathrattles will. Shadowstepping her is gonna be fun.
Tess Greymane and Lilian Voss. As for Tess, this girl is Yogg-Saron for Rogue, only instead of 10 Mana, one plays her for 8 Mana. Play Lilian Voss previously with her battle cry, and then sit back and watch the fireworks. If this combo doesn’t backfire in your face. We shall see. Blink Fox makes this card work as well. So all three in one deck. . . . yikes!
So this is the big reveal for rogue? Giving us a card that will immediately be relegated to Wild where all the other burgle cards are going to be? The last common rogue card being revealed as another burgle card is not go to help this situation. Rogue won’t be competitive for a while in standard I’m afraid. Time to fully migrate over to an annoying priest build until the devs can figure out what do with rogue – they clearly just want to default to random effects so they don’t have to put any real thought or investment in this class.
Are you even aware that you can always play a competitive aggro deck? With EVERY class, that is. It is just a bit easier for some.
Wild is awsome i will move to wild this seoson
Tess-Saron, The Rogue’s hand
You need a N’Zoth reference man.
No idea why people think this card is playable
It’ll be fun in a meme deck so it *will* be playable … it just won’t be good on the ladder.
Bro, if people rated the card on if it would be fun, some other cards wouldn’t have 3 stars.People legit think this will be playable(competitive) xD.
Just because people think this will be competitive – doesn’t mean it will be; predictions made by the HS community are very often wrong.
Which, of course, includes me… I don’t think it’ll be a strong competitive card but I could be wrong and it could be awesome.
I sincerely disagree with that. It’s definately not the most busted card ever, but it has a lot of potential to work as a win-condition on decks other than Burgle Rogue.
Burgle Rogue is unreliable, I agree with that. But Burgle cards are not. Pick-pocket can be easily fit in Miracle-Style decks. And Blink Fox, although I’m not convinced yet as to how practical she is stat-wise, can also work as a decent 3-drop that the Rogue Class is lacking.
Miracle-style decks could use another win-condition and she can fit in them without much drawbacks. I think she’s above-average and can be used in a competitive Miracle Rogue deck. I will definately try her out.
As for the Lilian Voss combo…I’m skeptical. I don’t think it’s worth running her just to feed cards to Tess in a Rogue deck that’s not dedicated to the Burgle Mechanic and Miracle Rogue (where I personally think Tess can fit into) already has enough 4 Mana minions that are far more valuable (Elven Ministrel, Fal’dorei Strider, Coin+S.I. Agent).
In conclusion, I think Tess will probably see play in Miracle Rogue or at least be a potential tech card in Miracle-builds (since Pickpocket will definately be included) and that might just mean that Blink Fox will also see some play. I doubt that will make Lilian Voss viable though. I think Tess works as a good alternative win-condition for Rogue, but a Rogue player that dedicates themselves in feeding her with cards throughout the match won’t see much success.
The problem I see with running Pick Pocket in Miracle Rogue is going to be managing your hand size; what Miracle Rogue *really* doesn’t need is to get lumbered with a handful of minions or expensive cards going into an Auctioneer run – and Pick Pocket itself won’t be a great card to use with the Auctioneer.
However – that’s based on the assumption that it’s a combo-based Miracle Rogue… where the point is to draw your win condition asap (without burning it due to a full hand). It could work in a more tempo/minion focused Miracle Rogue with the Strider – one where the win condition is basically to flood the board with minions, repeatedly. In which case Tess Greymane with a couple of Blink Foxes and Pick Pocket might work.
I still don’t think it’ll be *that* strong on the ladder though – especially if Warlock is rampant… quite often you *really* don’t want to gain random Warlock cards – and the “burgle package” here is, as ever, bad against other Rogues.
Hahahahahahaaha why are u so funny dude?!
DUDE it plays CARDS
that means it will play every Minion, weapon, or even hero card you’ve played this game. It may not be good, but it will have some extremely high-power plays.
If you played a hero card and turned into another class, it will play your rogue cards you have played that game.
As a bizarre cross between and , this does have the potential to:
a. Resurrect a full board of minions from your opponent’s class-and as we saw with N’Zoth, this effect is incredibly powerful
b. Be a tankier and more controllable version of Yogg, as it casts EXACTLY the same spells you did over the course of the game from your opponent’s class
The deck archetype that this card fits in isn’t particularly powerful at the moment IMO, but this could be the end-game a Thief rogue deck is looking for.
Besides, it looks really fun to play with! I’ll definitely experiment with it if I obtain it after the expansion’s release.
I strongly think that card will be played with only a few thief card and not an entire deck build around.
If you play a couple of hallucinations and shwar beugler in wild it can be enough
I think people are rating it stand alone, in the current meta this card is likely really bad, but it is a great card in of itself.
sorry, this shouldn’t have gone as a reply to you, I clicked the wrong button and there is no delete comment button.:P
yup you are right. It might work in wild tho, there are cards like burgle, swashburgler, undercity huckster and ethereal peddler
Does it work with ambush cards from faldorei spider ? Cards from Lich King and ysera??
Probably not. The cards from Ysera and such are not from a class.
I really hope one expansion we will just stop getting Yogg-Saron incarnations.
Our Lord and Savior is Back !
She grabs minions too.. she can do the yogg thing as well as give you a poor man’s N’Zoth board.
Wild Burgle Rogue is going to be completely bonkers. LOL
Thing about this compared to yogg is that it potentially creates you a board and destroys your opponents (and maybe even adds few secrets or replays stolen hero card). It’s much more controlled effect but your still limited by the random class cards you get and it creates a problem of getting cards you dont even want to play because of this effect.
I think this card works nicely with azalina since it can be used to replace your bad cards with your opponents hand wich likely is good one. Bad side being if you draw Tess before it you have to play it after it.
It won’t create tier 1 deck because of the randomness of the deck but hopefully something still close to viable. Atleast it’s going to be fun trying to play a deck around this card since all games should play around very diffrently.
Keep in mind not only spells but also minions 😉
Another class rogue coming soon.
Behold everyone, Yogg-Saron on more magic mushrooms then ever before.
Not only does this card cast a bunch of spells, but it hallucinates them all from someone else’s class!
They do have a much better stat line then yogg, but are slightly less rage inducing for both sides and less fun, after all, what is life if you can’t triple pyroblast your own face for 10 mana?
For real though, I really like this card
It scores a 9/10 for actually value and a 1.24 million/1.24 million for meme value!
…AND IT PLAYS MINIONS!
SO FINALLY after those dust card esp wanted we got somthing good to use
Rank 2 yogg its even better only bc its rogue and mage will miss it XD
It can both full your board and heal or cast spell for you but I THINK THIS FIT WILD MORE
I think a hybrid miracle / thief deck could work well. For other class cards
Hallucination (2)
Blink Fox (2)
Pickpocket (2)
Lillian Voss w/ a bunch of cheap random rogue spells to replace (1)
Then pair those with ethereal peddlers, mistraiths, questing adventurers and Edwin for big minion buffs during the whole process.
And wrap it all up with Tess.
If there’s room might want to throw in a small kingsbane package to control the board / heal yourself.
**Also witches cauldron
This card has just become my newest challenge. To make a deck specifically to make the biggest Tess in wild, and then clip it for the world to see.
Could you give your you tube account ?i mean whats the name of your id there i want to check it
Bladeofsteel is my username, though I haven’t actually posted anything yet. I’m waiting till Monday for the final reveals, then my plan is to make a deck for each legendary in the set.
as strong as it seems…
this type of deck will never be a tier 1 deck….
can you imagine if this archetype becomes tier 1?
mirror match everywhere….
and that will ruin the deck it self…
as for the card you generate from LK…
well most of the time youll only get one card….
so 8 mana repeat 1 card…
3.8 out of 5…
nice artwork..
decent value…
meme effect…
Actually, you are wrong. If this deck ends up being strong, it can be tier 1 easily. The mirror matches are no problem as it will have a 50% winrate against itself, wich no deck exceeds (for every mirror won with a deck, the opponent will have to lose one). The only thing that could stop this deck from being t1 (if it actually ends up working) is a different powerful rogue deck.
Witches Cauldron in standard?
So it triggers battlecries too?
It doesn’t count as played from hand so no but still busted. This is not a card it is a deck. If king’s bane rogue wasn’t a thing, I would sday this “introduces a new class” to hearthstone.
#Rogueisback(stab)
I’m not sure about that. the wording “replay” not return to battlefield. this is only card that has had the wording replay so I think it is possible it may count them as if you were actually playing them…… it probably won’t work this way but I wouldn’t say that for sure just yet
Who knows?
What about the mirror match? It says another class. How does that work?
I imagine it will work the same way Ethereal Peddler works right now…Rogue class cards don’t count as another class (but the Death Knight cards generated from Lich King do…)
Assuming mirrored interaction with Yogg, it’ll stop the Battlecry if it kills itself in the process. Not that big of a deal since you can semi-control how it functions and know what has occurred during the game, so it’ll be somewhat predictable what all happens.
That being said, I’d love playing this deck in Wild. Standard? Not so much. You have Pick Pocket and Blink Fox to get you burgle mechanics… Hallucination… and that’s it. I’m probably missing some things (plus not all the cards have been revealed yet), but at the moment the deck simply doesn’t feel good, as you have very little activators for a mechanic which seems to require you to build an entire deck around.
Now in Wild, however, I’d absolutely love this card. The theme fits the aesthetic behind Rogues in general (Burglary and thievery), and although random, it’s insanely fun when the stars align and you get great drops. And in a deck FILLED with Burgle stuff, this’d be such a HUGE swing should you get half-decent luck throughout the game.
Also, something to note: the card replays every non-Rogue (or non-[insert class] card if you somehow get it’s in another class) card you’ve played. Now, Shadowstep allows you to double up on non-Rogue minions (thus getting, say, double Tirion from a bit of RNG and Shadowstep), but I’d like to know how this minion would work if one were to Shadowstep ITSELF. Concerning Yogg’s mechanism, it WOULDN’T work, so I’d guess it’d be the same.
As long as you are playing with Rogue it’ll be impossible for it to shadowstep itself
Not sure if it was clear or not; YOU run Shadowstep in your deck to double-proc certain good minions as well as other burgle battlecries and Tess should she survive the randomness.
Oh my apologies; “one” referred to the player, not Tess. I see the confusion now x3
You’re missing witch’s cauldron…potential to add multiple shaman spells to your hand.
Lilian Voss
BOW DOWN BEFORE THE… (siphon soul cast on self)
What happens in the mirror? It says another class.
This could actually spawn an archetype.
Probably not but it’s getting close to playable.
With the subtly of a rail cannon maybe. Thief Rogue can also never become a high tier deck without their win condition turning into a very much below average card.
Who said it’s the win condition? The win condition for the new burgle rogue is just the tempo it can get in board to kill the opponent,Tess Graymane is just a help to save you like 1 each 8 games,and it’s very powerful to a single card(considering draw her half of the games,activate good cards that really can save you half of these times,and really need play her half of these times you draw her(and it’s just actually a pessimistic math xD))
That’s like saying N’zoth or Yogg Saron aren’t win conditions. While they may not win you games instantly, N’Zoth certainly and pre-nerf Yogg most of the time were capable of turning even gamestates into winning ones.
If Thief of Burgle Rogue somehow becomes competitive, this will be the finisher.
isnt she fucking awesome ?
Bow down before the goddess of death….
U dum
XD
Sure kido.Ill remember to remind you who is the actual after the meta setls down.
I remember how ignorant people like you gave cards like Kalimos 4.8 , go see my comments though.
This card is trash and its funny how many bad cards are getting 4+ here, that only shows how bad the vast community is in playing the game.Thank god for tou its an highly rng related game otherwise you wouldnt see even rank 10 in a million years.
Yes
Yogg’s back
Ohhhhhhh myyyyyyyy goooooooddddddddd,finally a op interaction with “brazilian rogue” cards,it can fill your board once and cast aoe spells with no problem,has a last hope…it’s pretty goood
Y’all were mad hard on my boi Face Collector. I think you owe him an apology.
Not really. Face Collector could add only neutral minions or class legendary minions that aren’t really worth playing a second time like Clutchmother Zavas, Dragoncaller Alanna, or Moorabi.
Even then, you likely spent six or nine mana throwing out 2/2s in the hope of winning a lottery that will rarely land in your favor.
This is obviously a very powerful effect and, to my personal opinion, a win-condition for whatever Rogue deck that includes her.
People compare her to Yogg and I see where they come from, but I’d more or less describe her as a “Yogg/ N’Zoth Hybrid” of a card (the Yogg-half being the more risky part). The big difference with Yogg is that this beauty right here can ressurect minions, which N’Zoth has proven to be a busted effect. Another difference is that she does that with a two mana discount, which is incredible. But–
N’Zoth ressurects Deathrattle minions you yourself included in that deck both for individual value and that very reason. They’re probably powerful cards. She….ressurects random minions from your opponent’s class. RNG is the issue here..and there are a lot of weak minions your pretty Fox and Pickpocket could have given you.
She’s definately a lot weaker than N’Zoth and somewhat weaker than Yogg, but if you run Pick-Pocket and the Fox she’s probably included. I don’t know about the Fox, but I could see Pickpocket in a Miracle Rogue build and she would definately act as a second win-condition. Also, she can bring back Legendaries from that Face-guy, she could activate Coins generated by the new Epic card and the original coin. I wonder if she’s cast the “Ambush” card from Strider…probably.
I think she’s an auto-include in most Rogue decks. 9/10
Coins and Ambush aren’t class cards. But good point about the two mana discount, because unlike yogg and n’zoth this is an easy combo with brewmaster (or shadowstep)
The cards this works with have never proven to be able to build a good enough deck to extend past niche play.
If Hallucination and Sprint aren’t currently seeing play in Miracle Rogue, why would higher cost greater variance versions of those cards see play instead?
Why would a Marin the Fox suddenly start being good because of this?
Why would Tess Greymane be an auto include in Rogue as a whole when you need to build a deck around her to make her decent.
This is still probably the best Thief Rogue card to come into existence and your N’Zoth-Yogg-Sarron fusion analysis is spot on, but it’s just not going to work out because Thief Rogue has never proven to be a good archetype in spite of the dozen or so support cards it has received over time. This will end up being Rogue’s equivalent to Cataclysm; the best card in the class’ worst archetype.
By Fox he meant the Blink Fox
I realized that shortly after I submitted the comment. Thank you.
Yeah because when spell hunter came out everyone said it would be complete garbage. Not like it’s top of the tier 2 list now or anything.
Pointing out a new archetype may be unsuccessful due to the history of the class it exists in is different than saying new cards added to a failed archetype will probably not make that archetype playable.
Granted, it was noted during the card reveals for K&C by at least some people Spell Hunter could be a thing in the future with further support. Even then, for every surprisingly good new archetype like Spell Hunter, Secret Paladin, and Silence Priest, there is at least as many unsurprisingly bad new archetypes like Freeze Shaman, Totem Shaman, Deathrattle Rogue, and True Control Hunter. It should be noted all three of those decks run an alternate win condition in the form of some of the strongest cards the class has access to. Spell Hunter uses the Barnes-Y’Shaarj combo to sneak out early game wins, Secret Paladin had the incredible early game package Paladin had during the Grand Tournament format to support the powerplay that was Mysterious Challenger, and Silence Priest won about as often off the value of Lyra the Sunshard as it did with the Divine Spirit-inner Fire combos.
Thief or Burgle Rogue belongs to the group of archetypes like Discard Warlock, Murloc Shaman, Beast Druid, Taunt Warrior, Divine Shield Paladin, and technically Secret Mage. All of these archetypes are basically pet projects of designers within HS R&D and they have repeatedly created seemingly powerful support to try to push them into relevance. Of those seven archetypes over the course of the history of the game, only Secret Mage and Taunt Warrior have seen great amounts of success with the former’s success being the only one that has crossed over between multiple formats.
Thief Rogue can work. This is a pretty obvious attempt at finally getting the square beg through the round hole as Cataclysm was for Discard Warlock. If it does work, it will feel very forced, and if it ever gets to high tier status, it could see mirror matches often enough to make the win condition of your deck into the worst card in your deck often enough to make the deck no longer feel worth playing over Miracle Rogue.
This would be the sort of endgame card that a Thief Rogue would need to be successful seeing as it is a sort of N’thoth and Yogg fusion.
It is unfortunate though most of the good theft cards (Swashburgler, Hallucination, Ethereal Conjurer on paper) will be leaving standard or have already left standard. Even with those though, the concept of stealing cards is just too random to be consistent in any way. Plus, playing against another rogue negates any benefits the theft cards would normally give you as the cards taken from the opponent’s class are not from a different class.
Almost by definition, a Thief Rogue can only ever be a niche deck. If it were ever more popular, there would be no point in playing it seeing as a thief rogue would be severely hampered more often than not against other rogue archetypes.
Hallucination is from Un’Goro
I did forget about that for a second, but given how the card has almost disappeared from standard play even in Miracle Rogue as soon as Knights of the Frozen Throne was released, one could potentially confuse it for card that has been moved to Wild.
Hallucination has another full year in standard. And it will clearly see a comeback now due to this.
Maybe it can’t do it on its own, but as a hybrid archetype it has plenty of support. Hallucination, cheap shot, fox and a mid size Edwin as early game setup and control. Questing adventurer, mistwraith and pickpocket while using all the stolen class cards as mid game snowball. Tess > shadowstep > Tess as win condition. Seems like a possibility for a high end tier 2 at least. If needed a small kingsbame package can be thrown in with two deadly posins and a leeching to help board control.
Don’t forget secret mage was around for a long time in the lower end until it got the final support pieces it needed. Valet and Kabul crystal came along with an extra secret or two and it jumped to tier 1. Can’t write these things off just cause of past issues.
The issue with Thief Rogue and Discard Warlock has been you cannot guarantee anything from it. You will have the Rogue core package to work with, and maybe that’ll get you fairly far on its own.
However, I do not think making your deck less consistent in order to play an admittedly good card existing in a bad archetype will give you satisfactory results. Also, Cheap Shot is inferior to most of the removal options Rogues currently have and Fox, unless it is played alone on turn three, will usually be worse than SI:7 Agent and some of the other three drops Rogue has access to.
From the way you describe it, the midgame is when you’re intending to play more of the cards you’ve generated off of the theft cards, which is where the randomness of this mechanic will hurt you. While getting nothing but good, non-archetypal minions and spells is not out of the question, you will average out to as a whole mostly around average cards. Now around average cards may be enough to get your through Arena drafts, but not constructed. However, if this deck does ever emerge, playing Tess multiple times will usually result in a win, but remember certain classes like Mage, Shaman, and Priest have cards that will be more likely to get Tess to kill herself the first time, and getting Paladin buff cards off theft cards could easily backfire on you during the Tess plays if they hit herself or enemy minions.
You are right about secret Mage, but such an archetype is not inherently flawed like Theft Rogue is and has always been sort of bubbling just beneath the surface with Mage secrets regularly seeing play outside of dedicated secret decks. Two card were enough to make it competitive with a better minion secret was enough to make it tier 1. Just compare the number of direct secret support cards released since Karazahn to the number Discard Warlock or Theft Rogue has gotten.
It’s not the lack of good support but the very concept of the archetype that is holding Theft Rogue back.
midrange rogue could replace some cards to put burgle cards like that new would,the pick pocket and allucination,anyway are all very good cards without Tess greymane,considering one save you from top deck condition or just can be used when you haven’t to play,another one is a very nice discover card,and the third is a solid 3/3 drop anyway…Tess will be very better than the card her replace cause will probly guarantee you like one victory each eight games,in a game you would lose cause valor/tempo losting,she isn’t a card you play everytime,considering you draw her half of the games,her can be usefull half of the situations you have her in hand,and you really need her half of these situations,but with that basic and pessimistic maths she can save you like 1 each 8 games
we can guarantee it would be used in any deck that use burgle cards,that can replace “worse” cards,that was the single condition to her can be use,now think about how many games you could win cause you have her in deck,its so much good!
How is Pick Pocket good?
if your’re playing it once, Hallucination is better as it discovers and it half the cost and that sees no play at the moment even in Miracle Rogue.
Playing it twice is worse than Elvin Minstrel as it doesn’t come with the body and the cards it adds are random.
Playing it three or four times is worse than Sprint in both cases and Sprint see no play. The former because for one mana more you could draw four cards instead and the latter because for one mana less, you can draw four cards instead of adding four random cards.
When you get to five times in a turn, you might as well play Druid instead.
There is versatility to this and Cheap shot, but when there isn’t a mode the card can take shape in that is as good as another option, it probably won’t end up being good.
Blink Fox is not as good as Glimmeroot, and Glimmeroot exists in a class with far less draw than Rogue, and it only sees regular play in one of that classes four competitive archetypes. Combine that with the better Tempo plays provided by cards like SI:7 Agent and Edwin, it is hard to see it seeing regular play when its competition for that card slot is so intense.
N’Zoth can still save you in the same way this can save you. That doesn’t stop either card from being a deck’s win condition. Not too many, if any really, decks use burgle cards anyway and Lilian Voss will usually give you cards worse than what you started with.
There are a ton of inconsistent cards like Yogg as it is at the moment and Deck of Wonders that can outright steal games, but they do not see play. They are far too random and circumstantial to be considered in a competitive deck. I would not want to triple the randomness of my deck to potentially steal what would actually be closer to one in one hundred game due to the compounding randomness of getting the random cards and those cards being applied often to random targets.
“Would thief rogue become popular, then thief rogue would become bad, because they would be facing lots of rogues, and thief rogue is bad against rogues”
That’s wrong because the rogues they’d be facing would be thief rogues too.
Thief rogue is not actually bad against rogues, rather, it’s bad against OTHER rogues.
“Would thief rogue become popular, then thief rogue would become bad, because people would counter it by playing other rogue decks”
That’s wrong because all good decks that exist can be countered, and that doesn’t prevent them from being good decks.
There isn’t any special reason for thief rogue to be niche. They just haven’t had good enough cards yet. Actually, the only synergy card they had were ethereal peddler and obsidian shard.
Ethereal peddler looked like a very strong card, and so when we realized it didn’t work out, we thought it meant thief rogue was just a bad idea. But look at leyline manipulator. It’s basically the same thing, a very solid body that gives a 2mana discount to specific cards. Everyone thought it was good. But it saw no play. So maybe it’s not thief rogue that was a bad idea, but rather, ethereal peddler was not a very good card. And so obviously when the only synergy card is not a good card, there is no reason for the deck to work.
Now, with a 8mana nzoth+yogg, it might actually take off.
First off, creating your own quotations is not how you quote someone. At best, you are paraphrasing me.
Secondly, Thief Rogue is bad against itself, its just both decks will be equally bad. They cannot get any rewards from playing against a Rogue deck. Tess Greymane would just be a 8 mana 6/6 against Rogues in general. A Thief Rogue mirror match would devolve into who gets more SI:7s, Vilespines, and Eviscerates and the least amount of WANTED!s, weapon support that isn’t deadly poison, and Razopetal Volleys.
If there is only one deck that can hard counter another deck, yes, that doesn’t mean that other deck will be bad. However, you will win or lose on the back of whatever cards you get from your theft cards. Playing them a second time will not always make things better unless all you played was well stated minions and spells that didn’t target. The very concept of the deck is too random against anything to be able to jump off the Rogue core game plan consistently like Keleseth Rogue was able to until the Patches nerf.
It is like Discard Warlock. You cannot guarantee anything will go the way you want it to go, and Discard Warlock has received a lot more good support, the quest, Zavas, Bloodqueen, Mel’s Imp, Silverwear Golem, and Cataclysm, than Thief Rogue. If all new Thief Rogue cards discovered what they added or were at least capable of generating more than one card, then it could become something worthwhile.
The game has been receiving enough Thief Rogue cards to be able to say it is an inherently flawed archetype and without some sort of massive reward and a collection of at least half a dozen good support cards like Taunt Warrior got with Un’Goro it is unlikely to be able to work as anything beyond a fringe deck. It now has half of that requirement. This is the win condition such a deck would need. Now we just need to see better support than we have right now.
Random card generation is obviously not a weak mechanic, it’s extremely common in constructed hearthstone. And even if it was inherently a weak mechanic, for any reason, like inconsistency, well, look at these:
Dopplegangster + evolve => evolve shaman, the best shaman deck
Barnes + yshaarj => barnes hunter, the best hunter deck
Imp + silverware => discard zoo, the best warlock for a period of time
Those decks are completely inconsistent, and it doesn’t matter, it only took literally two good cards to push them to the top. Contrary to what you said, thief rogue did not receive a lot of support. It received 2 synergy cards, that, as I discussed previously, weren’t good.
If there is an argument against thief rogue, it’s not about inconsistency (nothing is consistent in hearthstone), it’s not about mirror matches, (no deck is ever weak in a mirror, decks are even in a mirror, by definition). It’s about card generation being a value thing while rogue is a tempo class.
If all you deck does is generate random cards in hope that the climax of Tess will be enough to win you the game, and yes. Thief Rogue has received a ton of support since the concept’s inception in the Grand Tournament, not as much as Discard Warlock but more than Secret Mage as time has gone on. The list includes Ethereal Peddler, Swashburgler, Burgle, Shaku, the Collector, Hallucination, Obsidian Shard, and Lilian Voss. All of which are at least average cards existing within the class with one of the best classic cores in the game. In spite of everything working in its favor, it has never been successful enough to be considered anything more than fringe.
The Dopplegangster-Evolve combo will usually result in a board stronger than three 2/2, on average it’ll create something around three 5/5s with upsides. If Evolve instead gave the Dopplegangsters Deathrattle: Add a minion to your hand that costs (6) or made them into random minions with 3 attack, it would not be as strong.
Decks that play Barnes and Y’Shaarj are either Big decks that cheat out massive minions upwards of four turns before they’re supposed to come out or literally play only Barnes and Y’Shaarj to guarantee the massive turn four or five board. In both cases, the randomness of Barnes is limited to only summoning the very best minions it can.
Karazahn Era Zoolock did play discard elements, yes, but the most common reason why they were was because of Malchezaar’s Imp strong stats for a one cost card which made it easy to combo with Doomguard and Darkshire Librarian and Silverware Golem’s okay stats as it was. The deck’s strength was not centered on Malchezaar’s Imp and Silverware Golem. They were a part of it, yes, but given Doomguard and Librarian were the only discard cards they played, they were played as a way to mitigate the costs of those cards.
Nothing may be consistent in in Hearthstone, but the best random cards tend to be ones the limit their randomness like the entirety of the Discover mechanic or will rarely end up worse than you started like the Evolve mechanic.
A Thief rogue deck is at its weakest when playing against another rogue, especially if it relies on this as a win condition. There is no way of saying otherwise. It’s not like Cubelock, where the mirror match can be a real control showdown. A pure mirror match, which is still an even match-up, would devolve into the one who gets the highest highrolls wins.
Card generation is crutial in card games in general, but Rogue as a class has much better options for generating card advantage in the form of just drawing cards from Elvin Minstrel and Auctioneer instead of praying to RNGesus that the cards I get from this Paladin will be Tririons and Truesilvers and not the secrets and low value buffs.
It’s a nzoth yogg right? Play from other classes including the minions right?
What about Lich King Any Ysera Cards, do they count as other class cards?
They don’t. They count as neutral cards!
Wrong. I have built decks around this point precisely. They can be discounted by peddler.
Even though dream cards use the hunter card border 😛
Actualy Lichking cards are deathknight class cards! Etheral peddler reduces the cost of lichking generated cards. So they count as other class cards.
What about minions?
Yogg is back!
Yog-Graymane?