Looks like those balance changes Iksar was discussing on Reddit are coming at some time after the HCT Playoffs which end in late May!
Greetings!
In the weeks after The Witchwood, the Hearthstone team has been avidly reading your feedback and monitoring data at all levels of play. We agree with your concerns, and we’re planning some balance changes after the HCT Playoffs are finished at the end of May. We’re not quite ready to share the details, but we’ll provide an update once the specifics are finalized.
For discussions on this matter, please join the community here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20763886354
Thank you for your feedback, patience, and your support.
Cheers!
I’ll see you all at the end of May. Till then, it’s quest and log off
My bet’s on another Hex nerf. Needs to be upped to 5.
Seriously … honestly I think nerfs won’t change anything. Of course there will be some new decks for like 2 weeks, but after that people will play 2-3 new op decks and everyone will complain about those decks.
I don’t have a solution (if I had one, maybe I’d be a well payed employee of Blizzard), but nerfs don’t solve the fundamental problems HS has right now.
Ironic user name 😀
In my opinion, the nerfs have, to date, been highly successful in fixing problems with the meta and in injecting new vitality to the game. I don’t see any more need for pessimism this time round.
New vitality is all good … but as I wrote that vitality usually lasts 2-3 weeks and then it’s usual business.
Add to that the fact that Wild is broken and Arena seems to be Standard 2.0 and you have a game that isn’t that much fun right now.
Don’t get me wrong, I still enjoy playing the game. But I stand with my oppinion that nerfs are and never will be a real solution.
There are lots of ideas out there – different formats, monthly bans of cards, temporary restrictions to classes … I’m not saying that those are better solutions but I think Team 5 could do better than nerfing cards. Heck, even BUFFING cards would be more innovative.
They’ve repeatedly said that buffing cards is not a good idea and I agree with them. It doesn’t really solve anything.
I guess I’m not seeing the same issues you are. I’ve always managed to find off-meta decks that I enjoy playing. Or, occasionally, actual meta decks are fun too! I tend to alternate between Wild and Standard but I don’t find Wild broken. Admittedly I’m trying to get my last Golden class as Warlock and so am having great fun with a Naga Warlock of my own!
The main issue with Standard at the moment is just that Witchwood cards haven’t made sufficient impact to displace the pre-Witchwood decks and, as long as the nerfs address that, then I’ll be happy. in my opinion, Blizzard’s track record with nerfs have been spot on so I have every confidence that they will continue to keep up the good work.
@Thrombin: If buffs don’t really solve anything … then why on earth should nerfs?
My issue is that the meta didn’t change for months. That The Witchwood expansion doesn’t really exist. That Blizzard f****d up Arena. And that some nerfs won’t solve those problems.
Btw – as I wrote – I too enjoy playing the game. It’s just that it’s a litte boring right now.
And yeah – obviously if it’s fun for you to play Naga Warlock … then it’s clear that you don’t have a problem with Wild’s state right now. 😉
Well, I am equally happy and horribly depressed…
I just crafted Sunkeeper, call to arms, and I recently crafted the final touches for cubelock
However, maybe taunt druid will become stronger, as it is my favorite current deck, and that would cheer me up from these nerfs!
Can’t say I would miss cubelock or call to arms pally, they are really painful to fight against and make up a ton of the current meta, so ranked can seem a little stale sometimes
All in all, yay for nerfs! Yay for hadronax! Yay for janky taunt swarms! And yay to the end of half a dozen doomguards!
Anyway you can dust nerfed cards for the same dust you crafted it
The people who complain about losing to cubelock are the worst noobz I have ever met in my card game experience… Cubelock is already vulnerable to hyper offense/weapon removal and without n’zoth after clearing gul’dan the threats are usually over. For example now both warrior and mage can handle rinless cubelock very well with tank up, voodoo doll as an extra removal, two weapon removal, etc.
Moreover the winrate of cubelock is low if it isn’t piloted well, thus it’s not the problem right now.
The truth is that cards like the rogue quest and rin are much more oppressive than carnivorous cube to control decks (without something like dirty rat bis spell mage and odd control warrior insta lose to rin if rin is in the first 20 cards of the opponent’s deck).
Blizz, nerf the cards played by the noobz (call to arms, spiteful summoner, etc) and reward skill, please.
So you call other noob? LoooL you are just a basterd who cant play any other class
You are exactly a copy of a dota player who always pick SF and shit mid
Clear your mind and go to play snake and ladder
1000% agree with u
I couldn’t agree more. I don’t think cubelock is a problem at all cause I destroys cubelock with mind blast priest on ladder, they just can’t win without early Guldan. Other than that, both tempo Mage and spiteful Druid are good options that can put up a good fight against cubelock, or even counter it. and both tempo Mage and spiteful Druid are no brainer decks compared to cubelock, one wins by going face with burns and the other wins by counting on a high roll out of spiteful Summoner and playing everything else on curve. Nerfing usually makes an archetype of a deck unplayable and it won’t solve the problem completely. I say maybe buffing some cards for those bottom tier class might do the job. I really hope they can reward skill and nerf the no brainer decks too
I agree, but I think the matchup Cubelock vs Spiteful Druid is very favorable to Cubelock if SD doesn’t run 2x weapon removal. Ofc the cubelock player must play around MCT and silence.
Cubelock vs Tempo Mage is not great for cube but it’s still a lot easier than Cubelock vs tempo mage before the rotation (kabal lackey, ice block, kabal crystal runner, medivh’s valet were the most dangerous cards for cube and now they’re all gone).
Yeah, that could be true, but I don’t know. I usually do well against cubelock with spiteful Druid. One Spiteful on curve is already pretty hard for them to handle if they don’t have skull on 5. I think the matchup is situational and has a lot to do with how you both draw before turn 6 or 7. And yeah, the secret tempo Mage matchup before WW expansion was indeed a nightmare for cubelock.
It is really hard make balance change cause sometimes even one little nerf could kill the whole deck, and that is what you don’t wanna see happening. So they’d better be really careful with the nerf.
I smash cubelocks with thief rogue without much problem. Only issue I see with locks is that they dont have to pay the price they used to….demons without discard,,,draw without actual health loss.
The carni-cube is just minor problem(silence,sap etc).Paladins for me are the same they used to…..many cheap minions…nothing special.
I agree that spitefull dudus are ridiculous. Throw summoner for some 10 drop minon…where is the actual strategy?
Make possessed lackey cost 8… Guldan can only bring back 5 demons …darkpact should cost 2…screw cubelock lamest HS deck in history..
I don’t want nerfs, it would be nice some buffs once in a while
Agree
+1 The Witchwood in general needs a buff. Such a low quality expansion.
On the other hand, things can only get better as the Year of the Raven progresses. I guess …
I knew Cubelock was gonna get nerfed , hahahaa
Just nerf cube lock and all is ok:)
I think they should nerf shadow step. it makes quest even stronger
Quest rogue
Yo Want to kill all the rogué deck,?
Even,?, quest is stronger only again control, auto lose again aggro, they need rework quest not nerfit, maybe something more tempo quest
Quest rogue: give your minions life Steel
Play 4 combo cards
As long as they make calls based on data, and not the pitchfork carrying mob that’s always going to find something that needs nerfing. I found they usually play a different ‘OP’ meta deck than the deck they want nerfed. Don’t be like Overwatch, and base changes/balancing on actual data.
That being said, my guess is that Quest Rogue (The Caverns Below) WILL get nerfed, because those match ups suck the life out of you. Call to Arms is usually fine, although it could get a 1-mana increase, to 5 mana cost. Carnivorous Cube is honestly not an issue, and I think Even Paladin is winning a lot more than Cubelock nowadays.
But as I said, I’d want them to make changes on their own data.
I am 100% sure you are a damn cubelock player. First of all you have Rin as the icon and you want the quest rogue to be needed, that is the only counter to that bullshit deck. I want the warlock to be destroyed by the beers because I have never seen such a op deck in all Hs. Also the pally should be needed because it is pretty unfair, but not as unfair as warlock is.
I meant nerfed and nerfs, not needed and beers.
I don’t play Cube, but I do play Control Warlock. I’ll be the first admit that Possessed Lackey is unfair right now, but it’s definitely not the biggest problem. Cubelock is a tier 2 deck, and Control Lock is tier 3, at best. I just like Control decks, because I play the game to have fun.
I mentioned changing Quest Rogue, because it destroys EVERY control deck, not just Warlock’s. Quest Rogue is polarized; it’s an auto-win against Control, auto-lose against Aggro, as was mentioned earlier.
In essence, I don’t think anything is unfair, and I actually like the meta since the expansion, with Quest Rogue being the only real ‘problem’ for me. Purely because it’s not fun, and offers absolutely no way of countering it.
Cubelock Tier 2? Control lock Tier 3? Come on… Cubelock is Tier 1 and Control Lock Tier 2. The Kobolds cards for Warlock have totally warped the meta. Because of them everyone has to run silences and some have to run weapon removal, or else Cubelock gets an easy win vs them. I used to play Midrange Hunter before Kobolds but after it I had nothing to do competitively once Voidlord comes on Turn 6. You know a deck is bad when it warps the meta (Aggro Pirate with Patches, Jade Druid…). And Paladin is OP because it has too many busted cards. Nerfs are needed to both, and to Spiteful too, and the meta will be healthier.
I don’t see anything inherently bad about having to run tech cards in your decks to counter other cards. It’s not like decks aren’t viable anymore if you have to put in Acidic or Harry.
Maybe Control Lock isn’t tier 3, but I really don’t think Cubelock is tier 1 anymore. Its win-rates are dropping, and due to the uprise of Taunt-heavy decks, they struggle to get value out of Doomguards. Dark Pact is an issue, as is Possessed Lackey, but Voidlord for example, really isn’t. Skull is very strong too, which might need an upping in mana cost.
Spiteful isn’t too much of an issue for me, because I run Control decks. But I can see why Aggro decks would struggle. It’s more about including tech cards that can counter certain match ups, which is a process I tend to like.
I can only speak from what I’ve faced so far, with Lackey being the true thorn in my eye, next to Quest Rogue of course. Heck, I play Lackey, and I think it’s an OP card. To run Spiteful decks, most of the classes have to sacrifice a lot of good spells, which leaves them open to other threats. But again, that’s just me. I can agree with a lot of nerfs on certain cards, but if it’s not Lackey or Call to Arms anymore, they’ll find something else to shout about.
Cube lock is actually tier 2 according to HSreplay, they may change something with the deck still because it is not fun to play against. Control lock is mid-bottom tier 2 due to having bad match-ups against specific meta decks like quest rogue and tempo mage but really good vs a lot of aggro decks/other control decks. Paladin also has THREE of the top 4 decks according to HSreplay so on ladder paladin is more oppressive than warlock.
My guess on things to be changed would be call to arms (probably something else with paladin too), spiteful summoner, and probably rogue in one way or another to change quest rogue, definitely possible to see a nerf to one or more of cubelock’s tools (idk which would be up for that as any nerf to one of their synergies would work).
And, to reiterate, if they end changing some of the core cards I play, like Lackey, then so be it. If the data shows that, let them do it. It’s not about bias for me, but about proper balancing. Hard-nerf something, and something else will be prominent. Same story, every time.
Cubelock is a t1in control deck, but a t2 in general, and quest dont need a nerf you can make play 10 cards but is gone be a insta win again other control, quest need a rework
the problem with cube is everybody is sick of cube (exept cube players) it’s basically unchanged with the rotation and it is the deck with the best winrate from rank 5 to legend
Being sick of a certain deck is a bad reason to balance, in my opinion. More and more decks are focused on bringing it down, hence why it’s dropping in rating. Nerfs should happen when something is polarized, or incredibly OP, and Cubelock is neither. I feel your pain, because I don’t like it either, and as I said before, nerfing Lackey is something that will most likely happen, albeit with an increase in mana, or limiting the stats of the demon you can pull. I’m just happy N’Zoth rotated out, so it became somewhat manageable.
It’s cheesy and not my cup of tea either, but nerfs should happen based on data, not feelings.
Just because something doesn’t have a big winrate doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be nerfed. Quest Rogue pre-nerf also didn’t have the biggest winrate. The “skill” argument is also not very convincing, Patron Warrior was very skillful and yet we all agree that giving them Charge was broken. Lackey into Dark Pact into Voidlord is broken, period. Upping the mana cost of Lackey to 6 and Dark Pact to 2 would help a great deal and I believe the deck would be much more fair.
The nerfs are long due. When Corridor Creeper, Raza and Patches were nerfed, we were all expecting some nerf to some Cubelock piece, and to CtA. But just like with Patches, it’s incredible that Blizzard has taken so long to act on cards that are obviously unhealthy for the meta.
No, there is nothing wrong with needing tech-cards. The problem is that these “tech” cards (weapon removal and silence) are now pretty much mandatory in any deck because if you don’t have them you auto lose to Warlock.
When 1 class is warping the meta to the point where every deck is either heavily tech’d against it, or the deck is itself built as a counter to that 1 class, that is where the problem lies.
Also, to call Cubelock or Control Lock tier 2 or lower shows you have your head in the clouds and your fingers in your ears, ignoring all the evidence because it is the class you play.
That said, I do remember the sorry joke of a class warlock was prior to KnC and so a small part of me likes that it is no longer considered a throw/troll class.
I don’t only play Warlock, but yes, it is one of the best classes now. There will always be some classes that are ore powerful than others, always has been the case. While everyone’s complaining about Warlock being ‘annoying’ at best, other classes, like Paladin, are also showing ridiculous winrates. Some classes are more suited for Aggro decks, and since I refuse to play anything Aggro, I’m often left with just a handful of classes to pick from.
And tech cards are always needed. I’ve been using weapon-destruction cards since the birth of Truesilver, so, since the dawn of time. But you’ll see it more now, because of Man’ari. Metas change, it’s natural. But don’t claim it’s the case simply because of one class and one class alone. Don’t mention my head being up in the clouds, because it’ll be right up there with yours.
@TheActualUther You’ve never seen such an op deck in all hs? Lmfao, you must be a noob. Ever heard of a deck called Raza Priest?! Now that deck is what you call an actual problem.
We must never speak its name! It is forbidden!
Master brody is gone, and the dark one Will be rize again
The dark one is back
Kill paladín and spit in his grave, raven is the year of the Rougue
Rogué*
Let me guess – you play Quest Rogue?
Rogué not only quest, tempo and miracle are my favorite
And quest Rogué not need a nerf, maybe need a rework
Just nerf Call to Arms and Skull – those are the worst imo
Make Skull 6 mana and lacky 6 mana. And change CTA so 5 mana or something. Sorted.
The changes you suggested to Skull and Lackey simply delay the problem they are causing by 1 turn and would in all realness have little to no effect on the issue.
Why not have some restrictions on the mana cost of the demon’s that they summon? Why not make them take your life equal to the attack of the minion summoned? There are a number of ways you can change these cards that are more interesting and promote new deck building strategies than simply increasing the cost.
Also you didn’t mention defile which is the biggest power creep card in the game. Quite literally it is Arcane Explosion on steroids.
Hope that they don’t change too much. Guldan is fine, Voidlord is fine, Call to Arms is mostly fine, and Tarim is fair. If they’re going to change anything, it should be Possessed Lackey, Doomguard or Dark Pact, and maybe make a slight adjustment to Call to Arms. Blizzard should be careful about swinging the ban hammer too heavily.
Are you using even paladin deck? It definitely need to be nefted for game balance.
I agree mostly, Voidlord by itself is fine, the problem arises when it is consistently hitting the board 3 or 4 turns earlier. Doomguard is a different story, I don’t think it should be nerfed because of a couple reasons:
A) It’s a basic card, and if you start messing with basic cards then everyone will start screaming for changes to Shaman basics almost certainly, and look at the relationship between defile and arcane explosion – things will get messy fast
B) It has never been an issue until now, meaning that it isn’t the responsible for all the current issues it is associated with, the new cards are
C) Doomguard will certainly ask: “Who dares nerf me?!” and then punch you in the face.
Personally, I think there should be a mana restriction on demons recruited by Lackey, or your hero should take damage equal to the demon’s attack. Something like that that isn’t just “dur, hit it very hard with the nerf hammer”
I agree with you man. None of the Warlock class cards is a problem itself so neither should any of them gets a nerf in my opinion. The card they shouldn’t nerf the most is Doom Guard, because firstly, it’s a classic card, nerfing a card from classic set is a huge deal. It would cause the unbalance of the game if done unproperly. Secondly, it’s a well balanced card. The card is good but definitely not op. 5 mana for 5/7 charge with the side effect of disguarding two cards is just nothing but fair. Control decks wouldn’t even run this card if you don’t have some sort of way to cheat it out. It had never been a problem until the K&C expansion. So where does the problem come from? It comes from the interaction between all those cards. And since the problem isn’t on the cards, nerfing the cards just wouldn’t be right.
Cubelock is gonna get nerfed into oblivion I bet. Gotta sell those packs after all!