Excellent! I thought it was only at the end of the month, but the sooner the better.

Polymorph costs 4 in a control deck, with control spells, without any mana handicap.
Hex costs 4, and if you trie a control deck, you will have control spells with mana handicaps.

Thats why. It’s not very bad, but it indicates that shaman may be, now and in the future, distanced of possible “control” types of game. Also in the last expansions we did not receive draw… If this is the new class direction (bloodlust direction), and I do like shaman as a midrange control deck, I m just not happy with it.

I share the same opinion. Anyone who wants a stagnant game should devote himself to Wild.

However, I personally think the changes will not have the desired impact on jade druid, and we will be a second round of nerfs. The question is whether they will nerf or not what they should.

But for now, the meta will change a little and token evolve shaman can become a great option to play, for those who do not want to play jade druid.

Another possibility is that you win more when you have a fresh head… Just saying…

How about taking breaks?

Driving without breaks reduces attention and increases reaction time.
Studying without breaks reduces the attention and ability to memorize.
And the examples list go on …

Jade idol it’s a nonsense card! True, but it’s also true that even if you oponent run and plays Geist (and not all decks can run it) you can win any way. I did it in the past… That’s why I think that most players lose for Geist more often because they stress out and not because of their true possibility to win. With this said, the problems of this deck go beyond jade idol (not saing that little shit it’s not op), just saying that to deal with it and with other “indecent cards”, in my opinion, it’s by cutting of the insane possibility of draw mechanics for druid.

He has a selective perception… But in true, an Ultimate Infestation nerf (like some claim) was not enough… You may remove it, but people can run Gadgetzan Auctioneer and cheap spells. Druid don’t have Innervate, but it will have small taunts and time to do the same ramp-draw game (with UI and Innervate, or without). The best was a soft and general nerf across all druid ramp-draw cards (not all all, but to the overall).
Also, a lot of people think that an aggro deck is the counter for jade druid, and that idea excludes automatically thinking about what really makes druid jade extraordinary against slow decks. It’s the “mass ramp-draw” like no other deck! It’s not just UI, it’s all druid ramp-draw together! Not even the typical control heroes have so much draw… And druid has draw and ramp!

I agree. But the problem has not been fixed. The list will change, yes, but it will stay with the ability to protect itself, and to do mass ramp-draw. In practice it’s the same that was before… Also, to think that an aggro deck is the counter excludes automatically thinking about what really makes druid jade extraordinary against slow decks. The mass ramp-draw like no other deck! (it’s not just UI, it’s all druid ramp-draw together)

Jade druid was not nerfed, sad true, but UI nerf was not enough… You remove it, but people can run Gadgetzan Auctioneer and cheap spells. Druid dont have Inervate, but it will have small taunts and time to do the same ramp-draw game (with UI or without). What they need to do it’s a soft and general nerf across all druid ramp-draw cards (not all all, but to the overall).

And when will we have mage control cards with overload?

“We’ve been bendroderized in the ass.”

You were so much that you even called yourself Ben. Just joking =P

The nerf was good. the reason given was not!

It seems that they test the game with ai’s that play on curve… That explain some of the nerfs…

So…

(1º) The problem with pirate warrior was related with weapons and they nerfed the fastest one. The deck is still an option, but not so unfair/punishing in the beginning of the game against other decks. Nice! (5*)

(2ª) The problem with murlocs was related with the snow ball they make. This snowball will continue to exist, but with Murloc Warleader nerf will be more accessible to deal with it. Nice! (5*)

(3) The Hex nerf was not a problem (in the meta or in the game), I’m not disappointed, just surprised because if we are talking about identity, shaman it’s the one with overload cards, and cheaper spells (in comparison with other classes) make more sense to me to be there… Just saying… (2*)

(4) About druid… Yeh… Aggro druid will be fairer to play against, that’s true. But having in mind jade druid, the problem with the class it’s the massive ramp-draw, and that will stay… Spreading Plague nerf was not a nerf, more like an adjustment to reality, and that’s great, but any of the druid nerfs really nerf jade druid. It may be slower, but it has the ramp-draw it needs… The jade druid problem it’s not a card, or solved with just one card, it’s a problem created by the agglutination of cards! (0*)

=(

Crypt Lord and Druid of the Swarm, in aggro druid decks, they just counter other aggro decks. The reason why aggro druid decks work so well it’s more related with the great low cost missions (and not with 1/x taunts) and the lack of mass removal spells across some heroes, and/or the mismatch between the neutral cards that serve as hate and decks consistency and/or game plan.

This little taunts will only start being problematic in jade lists if we only see ramp being removed, because they will start being used to save time. Spreading Plague it’s a really good anti-aggro card, but sometimes it’s just a dead card… Yes it’s great to save time, and with jades or a pure ramp deck it’s even better than mass removal that class already have. The thing in my perspective it’s this, right now druid has more draw than any other class (including the main CONTROL classes!), but Ultimate Infestation it’s far to be the only one problematic draw card (or draw mechanic). With druid we have Wrath (1-2draw), Nourish (3-6draw), Wild Growth (1-2draw), Ultimate Infestation (5-10draw), Gadgetzan Auctioneer (…draw). Or we can use the druid “adaptability” to choose what they really need (example: Nourish, ramp or draw?) Also, even not being draw, you play a lot of duble cards, just like Jade Blossom, Jade Spirit, Jade Behemoth and Aya Blackpaw (with all the draw and ramp!).

If we cut ramp, we will probably only see slower versions of jade with more walls; if we cut draw, we will probably only see “normal” old ramp decks; and if we cut ramp and draw we will probably see more midrange decks (probably tier2, if not tier3) and a lot of new decks (currently dead due to jades) capable of reducing the aggro druid performance. I do not know if I’m right, it’s just my point of view.

I had already referenced this in another post, but I repeat, one mistake I think players are making is blaming KFT (or the team that made it). Yes druid received two great tools, however, the problem is not the new tools themselves.

Between the removal of quest rogue and the entry of KFT, between rank 5 and legend was mostly played jade druid and aggro variants (overall pirates) reason why I feel that no alteration occurred.

And before the expansion with quest rogue (during Mean Streets of Gadgetzan) we saw three dominating decks: jades, pirates and Reno.

We lost Reno and quest rogue, but jades and pirates were always present. They have always been unbalanced and the main reason why they were in the shadows it’s more related with other cards that meanwhile “left the game”.

Aggro and Jade are two opposing poles that work extremely well, and the polarity they create in the meta reduces the viability of other decks by imposing two completely different requirements on all other decks.

About Jade Druid: The problem includes not only the sum over time of ramp and draw (which is somehow acceptable in a typical ramp deck) but: (1) the jade interaction with draw (a good example of it that’s not even needed to be used right now is Gadgetzan Auctioneer with the low cost spells, including Jade Idol); (2) the simple fact that a player can play two bodies (or a relevant spell and a body) with just one card (in a deck with ramp and draw), a deck where a player can easily and quickly control the board (because he produces more and bigger bodies) and replace the board. This problem it’s not a problem for shaman or rogue because of the lack in ramp-draw and the lack of Jade Idol and Fandral Staghelm.

About Aggro Druid: The tools that are making this deck to stand out are the small taunt minions. The deck is aggressive enough to play against jade druid and is able to control the game against another aggro deck, including pirates, with the new small taunt minions. Being as good as any aggro deck, but being good specifically against jade druid and pirates (which are the most dominant and predominant) it can easily be the most successful.

The problem with aggressive decks it’s around, but it’s not new. The problem lies (1) because of some low drops power level – in relation to – (2) the hight cost of mass removal cards.

About Pirate Warrior: The problem with pirates goes beyond the normal aggro deck due the use of weapons. The be able to use something to deal with this problem usually involves changes in the configuration of the deck, which in many cases end up weakening potential meta decks in one way or another, sadly removing some innovation and variability in the meta. Also, do not let yourself be deceived, the deck power is currently in the shade due to Aggro Druid.

Hi,

I like the Malygos idea, it can be cool against some problematic decks (like control or jade, or not, don’t know) but it also makes the deck less consistent (in this case “randomly” more fragile).

Also, if you just add Prophet Velen you put all your eggs in one basket with random effects… So, (1) or you do that and full commit with a combo. Having that in mind you will see other minions on the way, so you need to remove them from the deck list, but you will lose consistency against “explosive” aggro or midrange decks to have a consistent combo deck. The thing is, you are not running Embrace the Shadow or Shadowreaper Anduin to full commit with a combo… But you may…(2) or you remove Prophet Velen and add a second Obsidian Statue to make the deck less fragile against “explosive” aggro or midrange decks, but you lose the big late game combo. The thing is, is Malygos enough in late game against control and jade or not?

About other options, I personally prefer the idea of two Dragonfire Potion. When running a combo-control deck, board control is very important and should not be overlooked. Also, Thoughtsteal does not give true draw, so I do not really like it in the deck. I like the card, I just do not like it in a big priest deck, for that I prefer Mass Dispel (it gives draw and the effect, although not for the majority, is quite significant in some matches) or Potion of Madness (if you find many aggro decks).

I did it with quest warrior… So… It’s not impossible at all! For you it may be a problem with the list you are running. Due to the current meta I dont run sleep with fishes and all the tipical draw+armor cards. Instead, my deck has a heavier taunt minion presence and achieves a faster and more consistent quest finalization.

Playing aggro! Thank you!

I completed 8 of 9 without consulting anything, but I’m not able to do the warlock one (I do not have the Reno and I can’t craft it right now). Any idea how to do it without him?

1º Druida= standard jade (in one try)
2º Shaman= standard evolve (in one try)
3º Priest= standard big priest (in two tries – same deck)
4º Warrior= standard quest warrior (in one try)
5º Rogue= N’Zoth (in two tries, 1º with standard jade and 2º with N’Zoth)
6º Hunter= “with a shitty control” (in three or four tries – 1º with a standard midrange 2º(…) with Barnes+Y’Shaarj and deathstalker)
Xª Warlock= I tried in several ways without Reno, but without success
7ªMage= (kabal lackey+counterspell) + “control mage” with Alexstrasza and arcane giants (in like +/-3hours of attempts >.<)
8ªPaladin= control + C'Thun (in two tries – 1º with a standard control and 2º with C'Thun)

That’s exactly my point. The problem is not specifically some recent additions (like ultimate infestation or spreading plague) but rather the over time accumulation of druid unbalanced pieces.

“The main problem, IMO (as an old-school MTG player) is bad design. Any student of early MTG who knows about Black Lotus & the Moxen, and Ancestral Recall / Time Walk, will know exactly what I mean.”

That’s so damn true! and sad…

One mistake I think players are making is blaming the new expiration (KFT). Yes druid received more tools, however, the problem is not the new tools themselves.

Between the removal of quest rouge and the entry of KFT, the European server (where I play) between rankings 5 ​​and legend was mostly played jade druid and aggro variants (pirates and druid) reason why I feel that no alteration occurred.

Currently the various druid variants are not all “op”, pure ramp lists are inconsistent and midrange druid token lists are balanced and do not deny space to other deck styles in the target.

The first major problem is polarity in the present meta:
1º Most decks (rank 5 or more) are druid jade variants that remove most control and midrange control styles from the meta due to the combination of ramp + draw (+ jades!). Also, Sulking Geist was added as “the counter” to jade druid, but it does not work because even without the 1drop the jade druid deck wins with all the ramp, draw and big bodies.

2º The most successful decks against the most inconsistent decks in lower rankings and with the possibility of success in higher ranks are the aggressive and consistent ones (murloc paladin, pirate warrior and aggro druid) with the possibility of winning the game before the jade machine is standing. Evolve token shaman enters this list, but is much more inconsistent regarding its speed.

3º The only successfully late game decks are (to a certain extent) or jade druid counters like exodia mage (but weak against aggro) or “control-combo” decks like kazakus priest (which is very powerful and consistent, and the fact that it is not considered a top tier is possibly due to the variety of lists that currently exist (in low ranks and hight ranks), but this is another deck that in the long run – when the list assumed by most players is the same and solid – can be as problematic as jade druid).

4º The impact of jade druid and kazakus priest is possibly not as visible in lower rankings, with lower rankings probably leading to a misalignment of meta-game (like if they were in a delay regarding the meta adjustment).